2021/22 Rocnel Sailor Adjustable

I don't think this case is an issue of mistranslation. I sent him photos and the anchor is on the same side as the Sailor phrase, both should be center aligned with respect to each other and the top cap alignment, so he clearly knows where. The Sailor phrase isn't anywhere else, so I'm not sure where there could even be confusion.

And NO one said the # 1 was a bigger issue than alignment. That's your interpretation. We were joking with Loot who was also joking in return. Your situation is NOT a joking matter.

True, I guess I'm just super annoyed, didn't mean to lash out on the folks on this thread and forum.

No worries and that's what I chalked it up to. I would feel the same way and sorry it happened

LOOT Wow, you're super lucky that he's actually caring about your issue! I have nothing new to report, he basically said that's just how I do things, deal with it.

Long story - I let him know of the misalignment, he just asked if the "anchor" is centered, which it is and said that's all they care about. "The product is recalibrated on the anchor figure. We do not try to put the phrase "sailor" in the center." I responded that's ridiculous and that the whole point of the MC is to get an extra level of attention, shouldn't it be centered. He said it is difficult to find micron details and that the cost of the product is related to cnc worksmanship.

I further responded that it is marketed to collectors, these are details that stand out and take away from a brilliant countertop piece, I mentioned my Sailor from Bullgoose still not being fixed and that he just ghosted me on those issues when I emailed him 3 times after his initial response trying to illicit a further response but I still took a chance hoping the MC would be worth it and still end up getting one with, what I believe to be, a major issue for a razor of this price point.

He responded, or whomever mans the Instagram, that "The products have huge complications. We are not trying to center the Sailor phrase. The same has been applied to all of the products we have presented so far. It's not unique to you. We will this consider this issue in new productions." If he wants to do this for the normal Sailor, that's his prerogative, but to have a MC series and do it on that as well, which I had thought was done by Murat himself and to a much more stringent QC process... that's just bananas!

For further context, I had been messaging him on Instagram when I was trying to purchase the razor because my American Express wasn't going through because his payment processor has an issue with SafeKey (fraud detection AmEx uses). SafeKey would pop up and just instantly say successful without emailing or texting me the code. I called AmEx FOUR times and they kept saying they don't even see the charge attempted it is the merchant/payment processor that needs to call AmEx and figure out the SafeKey issue. I kept relaying this to Murat, or whomever, on his Instagram and he said they'd call the bank but I had to follow up with him on it. He basically said it is no issue on their end and to use another card. I tried explaining the issue in full detail and that he needs to contact the payment processor, not his bank (unless that's just a translation issue), but he just said they see no errors on their end, so sorry but use another card. 

The quotes above from him are exact quotes. I never responded further. He made no mention of my Bullgoose Sailor that still has issues. He didn't offer to accept a return, exchange, nothing on my MC; he basically just said tough nuts, we do this to everyone so it's fair. I'm kind of over the whole Rocnel thing, this is just crappy customer service from the most expensive razors in my collection. From this thread, people have asked what the return policy is, warranty, etc. and people respond saying it isn't known or posted anywhere, but Murat is a stand up guy, don't worry, worst case you ship it back to him but he always makes it right. Clearly he doesn't and is now on his high horse of selling expensive as hell razors and has 0 customer service.

It seems he will resolve your problem LOOT but that's probably more because you helped catapult him to this crazy status he has and he's actually recognizing you not getting SN 1 will have more blowback than he anticipated. Doubtful he still cares at all. If the pig-pile didn't happen, you'd probably still be out of luck. Not to be totally mean, but it is funny that people care more that you didn't get SN 1 than the fact that $800 razors can come with misaligned logos lol.

As a big fan of Murat and his Sailor, this post is hard to read. Kinda crazy Bullgoose won't help either. You are having a string of trouble here that is painful to watch. I will pour out a 40oz for you tonight, homie.

I suppose very few vendors offer a return or replacement with no questions asked, but all should do it when a product has a defect. And each vendor takes a position on what constitutes a defect and what does not. In this case it sounds like Neil4Real feels the non-centring of the Sailor logo is a defect and Murat does not. It is not damaged, the razor’s functioning is not affected, and it is purely cosmetic. It bothers the customer but that doesn’t necessarily mean it is a defect. The razor is an expensive, limited production item, and if Murat accepts a return he cannot then re-sell it, so 50 2022MC razors would become 49. I get why Murat would need to draw a line somewhere and he can’t reasonably follow the same blanket return policy as, say, Blackland who are producing razors in bulk with the cost of expected returns built into the pricing from the start.

So is this a defect, or is it only something the customer dislikes and expected to be different?

From what I can tell, all of the Sailor 2022MCs posted here have the Sailor logo offset slightly to the left, but it is still above the anchor insert and not completely off to the side. Mine is like the other pictures I’ve seen here and it looks ok to me. Neil’s photo of his looks like it could be further off-centre than the others, but the photo is from an angle and it’s hard to be sure. If it isn’t different then it’s not a defect - they are all made that way and it’s just the way the logo is positioned on this batch of handles. If it is different from the others then I guess it is a judgement call whether that’s enough of a problem to warrant a return or repair. Or maybe it is just a minor cosmetic variation that is to be expected with a hand-made item. On balance, if I were Murat I would want to see a clearer photo and then make a call.

I generally think that if you want everything to be perfect and exact, you have to buy mass-produced goods. If you want to buy artisan hand-made products you have to accept imperfections and variations - so long as the product performs correctly. Take a close look around a Ferrari some day - any Ferrari - and see all the wonky stitching on the leather and all the sloppy welds. A hand-made Ferrari is never going to be as precisely built as a mass-produced Mercedes or, frankly, a Kia, however hard Ferrari strives for perfection. That’s not reasonable to expect Ferrari to deliver, and it has nothing to do with how much you paid. And, of course, if you can’t live with what Ferrari makes, imperfections and variations included, then you should not buy one - same goes for Rocnel. Damn good cars, though, and damn good razors.

TLDR: I think Neil is right and I think Murat is also right.

I do however think the lack of differentiation between the 2022MC and the 2022L standard razor, despite a $200 price premium, is more of a problem and a misjudgement by Murat. But, as you can tell, I do not attach any additional value to ‘hand-made’ status - on the contrary, I prefer mass-produced goods.

Sorry to go on, but Neil4Real I really think your other issue with the razor you purchased from Bullgoose is something you have to press Bullgoose about. Your contract was with Bullgoose and if Phil sent you to talk to Rocnel about it then he is fobbing you off. It is Phil’s sole responsibility to deal with this issue and he should never have asked you to try and resolve it yourself with the manufacturer.

I’m sorry you’re having these issues.

I do however think the lack of differentiation between the 2022MC and the 2022L standard razor, despite a $200 price premium, is more of a problem and a misjudgement by Murat. But, as you can tell, I do not attach any additional value to ‘hand-made’ status - on the contrary, I prefer mass-produced goods.

This is essentially the whole basis of my argument, paying a $200 price premium for a, purported, higher quality product. The difference here, and what kind of goes against your main point to Murat in your post above, is that these "hand-made" ones have that same imperfection/defect as the mass produced. So in this case, whether you buy the MC or the 2022L, you have a chance of getting the same off-center Sailor. Buying mass produced doesn't solve this problem. I feel this one is100% adverse to that thinking - hand-made, at this scale, can be pretty close to perfect. Especially if Murat is the one doing them and checking them. This isn't a hard to notice problem, it is clearly something he's admitting they just completely do not care about even attempting to line up: "We do not try to put the Sailor phrase in the middle." I mean... come on, you can at least TRY.

I also am around quite a lot of Ferraris, Lambos, Rolls-Royces, Bentleys, etc. and while there is variation due to the hand-made nature of the cars, they will certainly correct wonky work. They 100% standby their products and will make it right. One Rolls-Royce ghost had stitching where one spot varied ever so slightly from the rest and they redid it. When it comes to parts that you don't notice or can't without digging into things, that may be a different story, but anything that's costumer facing - full stop they'll correct it if brought to their attention.

Sorry to go on, but Neil4Real I really think your other issue with the razor you purchased from Bullgoose is something you have to press Bullgoose about. Your contract was with Bullgoose and if Phil sent you to talk to Rocnel about it then he is fobbing you off. It is Phil’s sole responsibility to deal with this issue and he should never have asked you to try and resolve it yourself with the manufacturer.

I’m sorry you’re having these issues.

Good idea, I've just emailed Phil again to see what we can do. Even if we can just work out a credit deal or if he gets new stock of Sailors in the future and I pay the difference or something. No apologies necessary, appreciate all your insight and feedback.

Sorry Neil4Real  for all the stress and whole situation you're having with the Rocnel.
Man I really like to see us all pleased and happy with our purchases and gear etc.. not just me.

I feel for you Neil4Real … Hope you get issues resolved at least by Phil at Bullgoose. It suck’s there’s any issue with a $800 collectors adjustable.

I know it would bug me and I Would blow up Murats email. 

GOod Luck Neil.

-This thread made me think If I should chase the Next Sailor 2023. Guess not.

Reading thread so thought I would check - 2020 MC and 2021 - both perfectly centered (the right looks offset but is actually dead on).  Never noticed before, but I suppose since it's not uniform across this small sample size it seems it really is something Murat doesn't regard as important.  On these at least (Loctite), you could loosen and re-Loctite, but not sure it's even possible on 2022+, and if mine were offset I'm not sure I'd take the trouble but it's something I'd notice now that it's been highlighted.  Interesting though, and I guess we're used to symmetry here.  Philosophically, you would think an artisan would want their brand/logo prominently and consistently displayed.  Even Ford puts their chop in the center of the hood!