#21

iLather.com
Oh, and just for the record, I currently own multiple soaps from every vendor in my top 25 list. They wouldn't be in my top 25 if I did not. I PAID for these too.


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Unobtainium81, SCShaver, primotenore and 3 others like this post
iLather.com
#22
He made it clear in the video that he took scents and value into consideration for his rankings. Scents are highly subjective. Based on your suggestions, it seems you favor higher priced products and Chris factors value/accessibility more into his rankings.

If you can get similar performance/enjoyment (in his opinion) at a fraction of the price, why wouldn't you favor the less expensive product?

More importantly, we don't get a vote in his rankings any more than he does in ours. We can disagree and state how we differ, but there is no need to attack him because you don't agree. A small percentage of people in this hobby have used as many soaps as Chris, so he has an informed opinion even though you don't agree with it.

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PickledNorthern, NeoXerxes, TSEvangelist and 4 others like this post
#23

iLather.com
(04-05-2016, 02:03 PM)PhilS Wrote: He made it clear in the video that he took scents and value into consideration for his rankings. Scents are highly subjective. Based on your suggestions, it seems you favor higher priced products and Chris factors value/accessibility more into his rankings.

If you can get similar performance/enjoyment (in his opinion) at a fraction of the price, why wouldn't you favor the less expensive product?

More importantly, we don't get a vote in his rankings any more than he does in ours. We can disagree and state how we differ, but there is no need to attack him because you don't agree. A small percentage of people in this hobby have used as many soaps as Chris, so he has an informed opinion even though you don't agree with it.

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Thanks, I think you nailed it. Although I do use some luxury products prefer value when I can get it. In some cases the luxury products provide good value and better performance, but in some cases they do not. As an example, Xpec is not 5 times better than Mike's Natural Soaps for me. It has a very nice slick quality but in scent and other measurable it does not exceed MNS for me. In many cases I find luxury products to be better than their lower priced counter parts, but only incrementally. Many times they are 5 times or more in cost but the increase is not commensurate with the cost.

Finally, thanks for reiterating what I clearly pointed out in the videoSmile

Mickey Oberman, PickledNorthern, SCShaver and 1 others like this post
iLather.com
#24
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2016, 03:26 PM by Fargo.)
(04-05-2016, 01:56 PM)SCShaver Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 09:46 AM)Fargo Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 05:42 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: No Tabula Rasa, arguably the worlds best soap/croap ?
No Meißner Tremonia ?
No Saponificio Varesino ?
No Martin de Candre ?
No Le Pere Lucien ?
No Savons des Volcans Bon Berger ?
No Nuavia, which is FAR better than Panacrema ?

I guess these artisans don't "support" him... Maybe he has not even tried these soaps. No surprise.

MT, LPL, SV and Nuavia are better than most of the American artisan soaps, some of them are just garbage with cheap scents.

Next video: How to support the American artisans

This mess is over the top. Why so accusatory? First of all, he made it crystal clear that it was his experience, and he had rules for how he judged the artisans. This is your second post in the thread, where you did not disagree like a gentleman, but instead you decided to take shots in a passive aggressive sarcastic tone. If YOU think that the artisans you mentioned are better, do your own top 25???? Or at least make a legit case for your artisan picks and handle it like a man, rather than whine about how the foreign artisans were left out? But the sarcasm and passive aggressive whining is ridiculous. Act like a gentleman and put your own top guys up there and explain why, rather than denigrating TSE's picks and acting like he has some type of bias or he is being partisan. I tell you, I'm shocked sometimes, how personally people take it when their favorite soap/razor/brush isn't mentioned in some top 10 or top 25 list, and they go OVER THE TOP to slam someone's opinions.

First of all, have you ever seen a TOP 25? This is absurd.
If you think that I don't act like a man or a gentleman, then what are you doing now? You think your behavior is better than mine? This is ridiculous, not my sarcastic, humorous post. What is your role here? Are you TSE's advocate? If his feels like I am not correct, let him respond and defend himself. Stop acting like a little girl that lost her favorite doll.

Also, he has admitted that artisans send him stuff once in a while. Guys, a wet shaver can't be objective with artisans that send him presents. End of story. Some weeks ago I watched a video and he started with sending thanks to gustavo that sent him the seygus to test it. And now you want me to believe that his review will be objective? Really? How many other artisans have sent him stuff like this, except those he bought with his own money? Most of the artisans became famous with the world of mouth marketing strategy and that's how they earn a large amount of their money. Videos on Youtube, forum ads, gifting soaps, razors and other stuff to reputable and well known members with the promise that they will make reviews after some tries. Youtubers like him know that and take the advantage most of the times. There is no accusation here gents, these are facts but not all of us can admit them. Come on, don't bullshit me.
#25

iLather.com
(04-05-2016, 03:20 PM)Fargo Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 01:56 PM)SCShaver Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 09:46 AM)Fargo Wrote: I guess these artisans don't "support" him... Maybe he has not even tried these soaps. No surprise.

MT, LPL, SV and Nuavia are better than most of the American artisan soaps, some of them are just garbage with cheap scents.

Next video: How to support the American artisans

This mess is over the top. Why so accusatory? First of all, he made it crystal clear that it was his experience, and he had rules for how he judged the artisans. This is your second post in the thread, where you did not disagree like a gentleman, but instead you decided to take shots in a passive aggressive sarcastic tone. If YOU think that the artisans you mentioned are better, do your own top 25???? Or at least make a legit case for your artisan picks and handle it like a man, rather than whine about how the foreign artisans were left out? But the sarcasm and passive aggressive whining is ridiculous. Act like a gentleman and put your own top guys up there and explain why, rather than denigrating TSE's picks and acting like he has some type of bias or he is being partisan. I tell you, I'm shocked sometimes, how personally people take it when their favorite soap/razor/brush isn't mentioned in some top 10 or top 25 list, and they go OVER THE TOP to slam someone's opinions.

First of all, have you ever seen a TOP 25? This is absurd.
If you think that I don't act like a man or a gentleman, then what are you doing now? You think your behavior is better than mine? This is ridiculous, not my sarcastic, humorous post. What is your role here? Are you TSE's advocate? If his feels like I am not correct, let him respond and defend himself. Stop acting like a little girl that has lost her favorite doll.

Also, he has admitted that artisans send him stuff once in a while. Guys, a wet shaver can't be objective with artisans that send him presents. End of story. Some weeks ago I watched a video and he started with sending thanks to gustavo that sent him the seygus to test it. And now you want me to believe that his review will be objective? Really? How many other artisans have sent him stuff like this, except those he bought with his own money? Most of the artisans became famous with the world of mouth marketing strategy and that's how they earn a large amount of their money. Videos on Youtube, forum ads, gifting soaps, razors and other stuff to reputable and well known members with the promise that they will make reviews after some tries. Youtubers like him know that and take the advantage most of the times. There is no accusation here gents, these are facts but not all of us can admit them. Come on, don't bullshit me.


Claiming that someone can't be objective is not a fact. Secondly, I mentioned that I owned and PAID FOR multiple soaps from every artisan I mentioned in my top 25. You don't believe me? Ask them. While you're at it, check around with people and see if I don't send out the products that I'm given to try, just like I say I do.

There are many people throughout this community that are sent products to evaluate, but assuming they are in the tank is wrong and irresponsible. 9 of 10 products you see on my channel will have been paid for by me. THAT sir is a fact. You can comment and give your opinion but you're not entitled to make incorrect statements and assert them as facts.

You think a top 25 list is absurd even though it's been requested by my viewers many times? Ok, no problem. You think other soap makers are far better than the 25 I've listed? Ok, no problem. These are legitimate points of view and entirely fair. The other stuff however is absolute conjecture and quite frankly, patently false.

Let's keep the conversation centered around the real issue at hand, the products. We can have that discussion and it can be spirited. Let's keep it above board please.

Unobtainium81, Eleven, SCShaver and 5 others like this post
iLather.com
#26

iLather.com
How about something like... These are my top 10 or 25 based on my experience. This is the type of conversation I'd like to be part of and what I will respond to from this point forward in this thread & nothing else.


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Hobbyist, BadDad, Mickey Oberman and 1 others like this post
iLather.com
#27

Member
Minnesota
(04-05-2016, 03:20 PM)Fargo Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 01:56 PM)SCShaver Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 09:46 AM)Fargo Wrote: I guess these artisans don't "support" him... Maybe he has not even tried these soaps. No surprise.

MT, LPL, SV and Nuavia are better than most of the American artisan soaps, some of them are just garbage with cheap scents.

Next video: How to support the American artisans

This mess is over the top. Why so accusatory? First of all, he made it crystal clear that it was his experience, and he had rules for how he judged the artisans. This is your second post in the thread, where you did not disagree like a gentleman, but instead you decided to take shots in a passive aggressive sarcastic tone. If YOU think that the artisans you mentioned are better, do your own top 25???? Or at least make a legit case for your artisan picks and handle it like a man, rather than whine about how the foreign artisans were left out? But the sarcasm and passive aggressive whining is ridiculous. Act like a gentleman and put your own top guys up there and explain why, rather than denigrating TSE's picks and acting like he has some type of bias or he is being partisan. I tell you, I'm shocked sometimes, how personally people take it when their favorite soap/razor/brush isn't mentioned in some top 10 or top 25 list, and they go OVER THE TOP to slam someone's opinions.

First of all, have you ever seen a TOP 25? This is absurd.
If you think that I don't act like a man or a gentleman, then what are you doing now? You think your behavior is better than mine? This is ridiculous, not my sarcastic, humorous post. What is your role here? Are you TSE's advocate? If his feels like I am not correct, let him respond and defend himself. Stop acting like a little girl that lost her favorite doll.

Also, he has admitted that artisans send him stuff once in a while. Guys, a wet shaver can't be objective with artisans that send him presents. End of story. Some weeks ago I watched a video and he started with sending thanks to gustavo that sent him the seygus to test it. And now you want me to believe that his review will be objective? Really? How many other artisans have sent him stuff like this, except those he bought with his own money? Most of the artisans became famous with the world of mouth marketing strategy and that's how they earn a large amount of their money. Videos on Youtube, forum ads, gifting soaps, razors and other stuff to reputable and well known members with the promise that they will make reviews after some tries. Youtubers like him know that and take the advantage most of the times. There is no accusation here gents, these are facts but not all of us can admit them. Come on, don't bullshit me.

There is this magical feature of internet viewing, and it is the "x" button. It will make any and all irritating online content disappear with a simple click.

You act as if someone forced you to sit and watch this. Good Lord, Man it is a silly YouTube video about some little buckets of soap. And over this, you would call into play a man's personal integrity? Maybe you should direct a little of your venom towards members of Congress, or Corporate CEOs or the director of your most reviled non-profit or something.

We are talking about SOAP for God's sake.


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grim, Hobbyist, Mickey Oberman and 9 others like this post
#28

Veni, vidi, vici
Vault 111
The spirit of this thread has been contaminated. Time to get back on track, please. I agree with my Pickled Friend; it's soap gentlemen. Trolling comments only undermine the ambience of our Forum.

BadDad, SCShaver, Freddy and 3 others like this post
~~~~
Primo
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014
A che bel vivere, che bel piacere, per un barbiere di qualità! Happy2
#29
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2016, 04:40 PM by grim.)
(04-05-2016, 02:18 PM)TSEvangelist Wrote: Although I do use some luxury products prefer value when I can get it.   In some cases the luxury products provide good value and better performance, but in some cases they do not.  As an example, Xpec is not 5 times better than Mike's Natural Soaps for me.

I have no issue of you pointing out the top 25 of anything. Go for it. It might have little value to 99% of the population but so what? That's their problem.

The issue you mention of Xpec is clearly the law of diminishing returns, something that effects most of life. I have found, for example, that some soaps costing twice as much as a lesser performing soap (IMO), is, in fact, twice as good. But after that it starts to fall apart as the higher the cost the more tinier and incremental the value.

I find the simplest way to look at this is with cars, something about everyone on the planet understands. You can certainly get to your destination in a $20,000 car just fine, but it might be far more fun in a $40,000 car and great fun in a $100,000 car.  But is the $100,000 car give you 5 times the value? Of course not - The Law of Diminishing Returns.

I'm still waiting to know the garbage. To be frank, it doesn't do much good to tell us which ones are great - Please take this as positive feedback. It's pretty easy to figure that out. All you have to do is crowdsource the reviews of a couple of dozen reviews and you can figure out which ones might be reasonable to buy. Whats far more hard to is find out which ones are NOT great.

Just like Consumer Reports might tell the consumer which cars to avoid, there should be a means to find out the soaps to NOT buy. That would be valuable to some of us.

Sometimes its better to own one GREAT product than 5 junk products.

BadDad and SCShaver like this post
#30
(04-05-2016, 12:23 PM)TSEvangelist Wrote:
(04-05-2016, 05:42 AM)CHSeifert Wrote: No Tabula Rasa, arguably the worlds best soap/croap ?
No Meißner Tremonia ?
No Saponificio Varesino ?
No Martin de Candre ?
No Le Pere Lucien ?
No Savons des Volcans Bon Berger ?
No Nuavia, which is FAR better than Panacrema ?


Tabula Rasa - Good but a little pricey IMO.
Meisner - Good but I don't care that much for their scents. I did buy them and after a good bit of use I got rid of them.
MDC - Excellent and will be in my best Luxury products list
Saponificio Varesino - Excellent and will be on my best luxury products list
LPL - Don't care for the scents, good performer but a little pricey.
Nuavia - Own but have not used it. At $80 it cold only be a luxury category. It will have to be very very good to justify this sort of price.

I think I missed this the first time. You own Nuavia but have not used it? You have extreme restraint. Do you have Blu and Rossa? I received them both from my wife as a gift and they are the very best soaps I've ever used. Unfortunate that they are a little warm scented for the current season however.


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