Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
MWS = mystic water?
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
(01-02-2017, 11:11 PM)grim Wrote:(01-02-2017, 10:54 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote: MWS = mystic water?
mws Mystic Water Soap yes
I haven't tried MW in a longgg time. I was going through one of my shaving gear drawers yesterday and found a sample of MW soap that I might have to try here soon.
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
Soothseeker
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2017, 05:58 AM by Nero.)
grim, I'm through post 20 on here (I'm just getting acquainted with this forum), and I have to say this is one of the, if not THE, greatest thread I've ever read.
I feel like I'm reading my thoughts/experiences/recommendations (do research but trust yourself more), you just have more endurance to write it all out. We will get along very well here.
Thank you for your commitment to The Sooth
I feel like I'm reading my thoughts/experiences/recommendations (do research but trust yourself more), you just have more endurance to write it all out. We will get along very well here.
Thank you for your commitment to The Sooth
Member
(01-09-2017, 05:55 AM)Nero Wrote: grim, I'm through post 20 on here (I'm just getting acquainted with this forum), and I have to say this is one of the, if not THE, greatest thread I've ever read.
I feel like I'm reading my thoughts/experiences/recommendations (do research but trust yourself more), you just have more endurance to write it all out. We will get along very well here.
Thank you for your commitment to The Sooth
Thank you. Its always proper to give back to the community.
Member
In post 74, 6/5/16, I was requested to discuss my top soaps. After a significant time period using these products, I’ve revised my list a bit and now know a bit about true cost/shave.
To understand this, the difference between 1, 2, and 3 is so slight, less than 1%, that on any given day one could be better than the other. At 4 and 5, there is a difference but the soaps still elite. Once you get below that, the difference becomes significant. To review how I score, it is on a scale of 1 to 100 on a holistic basis, not assigning equal weights to attributes. For example, it won’t matter to me if a particular soap is the most slickest on the planet if it stinks to my nose. The attributes I consider are:
• Scent. Since shaving is a task one has to do and is a routine, mundane task, a pleasant scent make the journey a pleasant journey. No scent, while maybe acceptable to some, is less pleasant while an obnoxious scent might be a miserable journey. Scent is entirely subject. Its been measured that 30% of the olfactory sensors can be different between individuals.
• Scent Strength. How strong is the scent?
• Scent Dissipation (i.e., how long did the scent last while shaving)?
• Slickness. Slickness might be best described as how easy to blade glides over the skin. Slickness is very important, as the blade catching is not a good idea. A soap or cream that dries on the face means one cannot go over the same area of skin without reapplying lather.
• Residual Slickness. The ability to immediately shave over the same area of the face after lather has been removed.
• Cushion. How protective the soap is also important. If it’s too cushioned, the shave will not be close. If there is little cushion, then razor burn might be the result.
• Ease of making the lather. Some soap explodes in lather easily while others are finicky and take work and effort to get the water ratio to soap correct. If it takes too much effort, the journey will be tiresome.
• Drying (Hydration). Soaps can quickly dry out. Any soap that is drying in the bowl on your face is far too much effort to be worth the money spent.
• After Shave Feel – How does the face feel after shaving (which is not all that important as this can be mitigated with an appropriate after shave balm)?
• Lather “feel” – Does the lather feel luxurious and thick on the face or thin and airy?
As I used these soaps, I used them as I normally would, meaning with creams I tend to use a small brush and with soaps a large brush. In the cold months I like to use a scuttle. Some of the products I used a full tube or tub of soap and others a reasonable, measure sample size and extrapolated for the full costs of soap at the most economical price. For prices I used real life prices from actual vendors at the cheapest price I could find. If the place offered free shipping, for example for buying at a certain level, then shipping costs were not included since they were free. On the other hand, some products, like Santa Maria Novella offer no free shipping so the price included shipping. Tax is never included because every location can be different.
One annoying thing is the lack of standard between soap sellers. Some use grams or ounces. Others use milliliters or fluid ounces. They are NOT the same thing as clearly one is weight and the other is fluid volume. However, I must presume that if a seller advertises their product is, for example, 4 oz that in fact, there is a minimum 4 oz. Otherwise one might construe that as false advertising. I’d have to consider that a minimum weight. In real life, its not always true. Even with the same soap seller, soap weights varied.
Next, the Elite 5
To understand this, the difference between 1, 2, and 3 is so slight, less than 1%, that on any given day one could be better than the other. At 4 and 5, there is a difference but the soaps still elite. Once you get below that, the difference becomes significant. To review how I score, it is on a scale of 1 to 100 on a holistic basis, not assigning equal weights to attributes. For example, it won’t matter to me if a particular soap is the most slickest on the planet if it stinks to my nose. The attributes I consider are:
• Scent. Since shaving is a task one has to do and is a routine, mundane task, a pleasant scent make the journey a pleasant journey. No scent, while maybe acceptable to some, is less pleasant while an obnoxious scent might be a miserable journey. Scent is entirely subject. Its been measured that 30% of the olfactory sensors can be different between individuals.
• Scent Strength. How strong is the scent?
• Scent Dissipation (i.e., how long did the scent last while shaving)?
• Slickness. Slickness might be best described as how easy to blade glides over the skin. Slickness is very important, as the blade catching is not a good idea. A soap or cream that dries on the face means one cannot go over the same area of skin without reapplying lather.
• Residual Slickness. The ability to immediately shave over the same area of the face after lather has been removed.
• Cushion. How protective the soap is also important. If it’s too cushioned, the shave will not be close. If there is little cushion, then razor burn might be the result.
• Ease of making the lather. Some soap explodes in lather easily while others are finicky and take work and effort to get the water ratio to soap correct. If it takes too much effort, the journey will be tiresome.
• Drying (Hydration). Soaps can quickly dry out. Any soap that is drying in the bowl on your face is far too much effort to be worth the money spent.
• After Shave Feel – How does the face feel after shaving (which is not all that important as this can be mitigated with an appropriate after shave balm)?
• Lather “feel” – Does the lather feel luxurious and thick on the face or thin and airy?
As I used these soaps, I used them as I normally would, meaning with creams I tend to use a small brush and with soaps a large brush. In the cold months I like to use a scuttle. Some of the products I used a full tube or tub of soap and others a reasonable, measure sample size and extrapolated for the full costs of soap at the most economical price. For prices I used real life prices from actual vendors at the cheapest price I could find. If the place offered free shipping, for example for buying at a certain level, then shipping costs were not included since they were free. On the other hand, some products, like Santa Maria Novella offer no free shipping so the price included shipping. Tax is never included because every location can be different.
One annoying thing is the lack of standard between soap sellers. Some use grams or ounces. Others use milliliters or fluid ounces. They are NOT the same thing as clearly one is weight and the other is fluid volume. However, I must presume that if a seller advertises their product is, for example, 4 oz that in fact, there is a minimum 4 oz. Otherwise one might construe that as false advertising. I’d have to consider that a minimum weight. In real life, its not always true. Even with the same soap seller, soap weights varied.
Next, the Elite 5
Member
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2017, 05:00 PM by grim.)
#1 Elite – Santa Maria Novella Crema da Barba
When I first started to look at shaving creams/soaps I did a Google search on “best shaving creams (or soaps)”. What came up were websites proclaiming whatever it was they were pushing, usually linking to an Amazon link, as “the best”. A few consistent names were repeated like Trumpers Rose and TOBS Sandalwood. Until recently TOBS Sandalwood was the most popular shaving cream sold on Amazon so that made sense. It’s also one of the cheapest.
When I looked deeper and started asking questions, a few times one name kept reappearing at the top of the “best list”, not on these “expert” websites trying to sell products, but in a forum, and that name was Santa Maria Novella (SMN). At this point I learned to ignore “best lists” of any kind since everyone seems to be trying to sell something. Some might want you to click a link so they can make a profit. Some might have a personal agenda wanting you to agree with their opinions. Some were the flavor of the month, that is, a particular artisan was popular for a few months until the next new artisan appeared. And it was about impossible to find truly objective tests or subjective opinions not swayed by dollar signs. There is no Consumer Reports for shaving cream.
But SMN didn’t “always” appear and when I asked about that, the answer should have been obvious to me – cost. You can’t comment on something if you never tried it. SMN is not easy to acquire. You can’t just walk into a store in downtown nowhere and buy it. It’s sold in one store in NY or mail order. It’s not cheap, coming in around $80 shipped. People complain about this but they tend to overlook exactly how much product you get for that price. 7.4 fl oz is a LOT of soap. Then the company selling it stopped selling it and it was taken over by the maker itself. Resellers are rare, perhaps one luxury Internet company but they seem to come and go. And I know of no reseller that packages samples. Then the versions change with time. When I decided to buy SMN it had an enormous reputation to live up to, and it didn’t disappoint. It takes a giant leap of faith to just believe.
I consider SMN the elite of the elite by a very thin margin. SMN, to me, is a summer soap. Lathering is trivial. It explodes in lather. For scent I got a bit of menthol and a bit of tobacco immediately with a fair amount of eucalyptus. The citrus and jasmine scent were barely present and as the shave continues, the rest of the other scents, supposedly vanilla and amber, came out a tiny bit but I have a hard time detecting them. The overall scent lasted most of the shave and every re-lather brought a fresh wave of scent. Every note in this product is a scent I like from tobacco, eucalyptus, jasmine, vanilla, amber, to malt, although it predominately comes across as eucalyptus, the rest of the scents are simply sublime and sublime is the appropriate word.
Scent strength was reasonably strong, lack of scent dissipation was excellent, and every re-lather resulted in a fresh wave of scent. As to slickness and residual slickness, the only soap possibly slicker might be ABC. Residual slickness is superb. Cushion was excellent, perhaps second only to Boellis Panama, and lather feel was super luxurious, perhaps second only to ADP. If it had any weakness, it would be aftershave feel. But at this level, these are nits.
![[Image: i-q4hnX4K-M.jpg]](https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-q4hnX4K/0/M/i-q4hnX4K-M.jpg)
SMN is still the best of the best to me. If ABC is slicker, Boellis have better cushion, and ADP a more luxurious lather, then how can this be the best? Simple, combine the scent with being #2 in all the major technical attributes and holistically, it’s the best for me. From time to time the nahsayers will write that Proraso is the same thing as SMN. That’s so funny as to be ludicrous. Not even close. You get what you pay for.
I have used enough SMN to determine true cost per shave and SMN is amazingly efficient. Despite the high initial cost of $71 plus shipping, I determined cost per shave to be about 24 cents. This is well within reason and I believe makes this soap not only technically the best but a stunning value.
#2 (Tie) Elite – Aqua di Parma Collezione Barbiere
Similar to SMN, the touch of menthol was about perfect for the Summer. Again, the lather explodes and was the luxury type similar to SMN with just the right face feel. You knew you were dealing in luxury. Performance was stellar – excellent slickness and cushion. Residual slickness could have been better but at this level, these are tiny graduations. ADP seems to have the best “face feel” of luxury of all. The resultant shave was one of the best. If anything could be improved, after shave feel could have been better.
Some think there is no scent in this product but there is. It is just very faint, a very light basil/lemon. The ingredients lists Citrus Limon (Lemon) peel oil and basil. Anyone who cooks can tell you the main scent of lemon is not from the juice but from the peel. If the scent was stronger, it would be the peer to SMN Other than that, I consider ADP surely a premium product, refreshing, and a luxury. If the scent was stronger, it would be the peer of SMN at the tip of the Pyramid. ADP moves up a slot to second place tied with the next product, Boellis Panama 1924.
You don’t hear much discussion about ADP in forums. Again cost is an issue. This isn’t surprising and unlike SMN you do not get anywhere as near as much product for dollars spent. Except for ABC Cream, ADP is significantly more expensive than most other products on the market, but worth every penny.
# 2(Tie) Elite –Boellis Panama 1924
Boellis Panama 1924 was an elusive product to find. It’s available in two forms, a coffret at around $115 and a refill at $48. The coffret was available for a short time in 2016 but there was no way I could justify spending $67 on clutter. Both were out of stock about everywhere in 2016 and therefore left out of my initial analysis but the refill became available toward the end of 2016. Tied with ADP is Boellis Panama 1924.
![[Image: i-8dB827r-S.jpg]](https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8dB827r/0/S/i-8dB827r-S.jpg)
The scent is a weak almond, not sweet. Its slickness and residual slickness is superb and I now consider it the king of cushion. Time after time, I have gotten no closer shave than with this soap. Its only weakness could be after shave feel but I no longer consider that attribute as important as a balm can make up for that. I consider Boellis Panama 1924 on par with ADP.
The cost of this soap is more reasonable than one might imagine. It falls in much cheaper than C&S, and cheaper than XPEC, Klar, and Nuavia, not to mention the much more expensive ABC, SMN, MdC, and Nuavia. One problem with Boellis is I do not find the advertised weight to be the same as the actual weight. That could be the way I measured it or not. In any case, I have to trust the advertised weight.
#3 – Antica Colla Barbiera Saponetta da Barba all’Olio di Mandorla and Sapone da Barba in Crema all’Olio di Mandorla
Otherwise known as ABC Soap and Cream, ABC doesn’t get much discussion in the virtual space compared to others either and I suspect it’s the price of entry that scares consumers. In any case I prefer the Sapponetta. Sapone da Barba in Crema, the cream, is about the most expensive game in town. ABC is about the slickest soap that exists and I think the cream was not as slick as the soap. As to the Almond scent, almond is not a favorite, a reason for why I downgrade this brand a bit. Almond paste scent belongs in pastries, not in shaving soap, but that’s just my thought.
The soap has become difficult to come by but using the cream I find this cream so slippery I’m afraid to touch anything else after touching it. Its residual slickness is better than the slickness of other soaps. This is truly an elite product just a tick below ADP and Boellis, IMO, simply because Boellis has a touch better cushion. However, if you prize slickness over cushion, then ABC is the better choice.
However, cost is always an issue and at $79 in the US, it’s hard to justify the cost for the cream when Boellis is available at $48. In terms of practicality, its something I would have to think hard about before repurchasing. However, I can’t see being without it, its that good.
#4 Elite Klar Seifen
Klar Seifen is a quintuple milled soap that comes in a classic scent, sport, almond, and lemongrass. Klar Seifen is second only to Boellis in cushion, holds up well in a scuttle, and has a classic scent that everyone would understand. After using it quite a bit, my opinion of it has moved it from a first class soap to Elite.
It was impossible to determine the cost/shave for Klar. I put the soap in a plastic tub, both classic and sport. But after 30 shaves, the weight of the tubs INCREASED rather than decreased. Despite letting them dry for a month, they both clearly gained weight.
Since C&S is a triple milled soap and Klar quintuple milled, and Klar has a few more grams of product than C&S, I took my C&S estimate and added 10%. Klar is much cheaper than C&S and therefore my estimate is 12 cents/shave. This is a stunningly good value.
#5 Elite – Martin de Candre
Moving up a slot is MdC, a product that should be no surprise to anyone. MdC has been reviewed a thousand times in a thousand places and seems a bit mundane and ordinary in this crowd. It might sound a bit funny but it seems to be the pedestrian product in this group. Meanwhile other soap companies try to emulate it and I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It’s density and the frugalness of use (i.e., it lasts a LONG time) fits in this pseudo pedestrian place among the elite, considering a single container might last a lifetime! I’m not going to try to review MdC. It’s been done over and over again and there is nothing that needs to be said that hasn't already been said. It’s an excellent product IMO worth every penny of its cost. With the addition of a Rose and Vetiver scent, they have expanded the line although they are labeled as Limited Edition. I did the same for MdC Fern, taking a measured 10g and extrapolating, and MdC came in at 54 cents. Rose and Vetiver would cost more.
When I first started to look at shaving creams/soaps I did a Google search on “best shaving creams (or soaps)”. What came up were websites proclaiming whatever it was they were pushing, usually linking to an Amazon link, as “the best”. A few consistent names were repeated like Trumpers Rose and TOBS Sandalwood. Until recently TOBS Sandalwood was the most popular shaving cream sold on Amazon so that made sense. It’s also one of the cheapest.
When I looked deeper and started asking questions, a few times one name kept reappearing at the top of the “best list”, not on these “expert” websites trying to sell products, but in a forum, and that name was Santa Maria Novella (SMN). At this point I learned to ignore “best lists” of any kind since everyone seems to be trying to sell something. Some might want you to click a link so they can make a profit. Some might have a personal agenda wanting you to agree with their opinions. Some were the flavor of the month, that is, a particular artisan was popular for a few months until the next new artisan appeared. And it was about impossible to find truly objective tests or subjective opinions not swayed by dollar signs. There is no Consumer Reports for shaving cream.
But SMN didn’t “always” appear and when I asked about that, the answer should have been obvious to me – cost. You can’t comment on something if you never tried it. SMN is not easy to acquire. You can’t just walk into a store in downtown nowhere and buy it. It’s sold in one store in NY or mail order. It’s not cheap, coming in around $80 shipped. People complain about this but they tend to overlook exactly how much product you get for that price. 7.4 fl oz is a LOT of soap. Then the company selling it stopped selling it and it was taken over by the maker itself. Resellers are rare, perhaps one luxury Internet company but they seem to come and go. And I know of no reseller that packages samples. Then the versions change with time. When I decided to buy SMN it had an enormous reputation to live up to, and it didn’t disappoint. It takes a giant leap of faith to just believe.
I consider SMN the elite of the elite by a very thin margin. SMN, to me, is a summer soap. Lathering is trivial. It explodes in lather. For scent I got a bit of menthol and a bit of tobacco immediately with a fair amount of eucalyptus. The citrus and jasmine scent were barely present and as the shave continues, the rest of the other scents, supposedly vanilla and amber, came out a tiny bit but I have a hard time detecting them. The overall scent lasted most of the shave and every re-lather brought a fresh wave of scent. Every note in this product is a scent I like from tobacco, eucalyptus, jasmine, vanilla, amber, to malt, although it predominately comes across as eucalyptus, the rest of the scents are simply sublime and sublime is the appropriate word.
Scent strength was reasonably strong, lack of scent dissipation was excellent, and every re-lather resulted in a fresh wave of scent. As to slickness and residual slickness, the only soap possibly slicker might be ABC. Residual slickness is superb. Cushion was excellent, perhaps second only to Boellis Panama, and lather feel was super luxurious, perhaps second only to ADP. If it had any weakness, it would be aftershave feel. But at this level, these are nits.
SMN is still the best of the best to me. If ABC is slicker, Boellis have better cushion, and ADP a more luxurious lather, then how can this be the best? Simple, combine the scent with being #2 in all the major technical attributes and holistically, it’s the best for me. From time to time the nahsayers will write that Proraso is the same thing as SMN. That’s so funny as to be ludicrous. Not even close. You get what you pay for.
I have used enough SMN to determine true cost per shave and SMN is amazingly efficient. Despite the high initial cost of $71 plus shipping, I determined cost per shave to be about 24 cents. This is well within reason and I believe makes this soap not only technically the best but a stunning value.
#2 (Tie) Elite – Aqua di Parma Collezione Barbiere
Similar to SMN, the touch of menthol was about perfect for the Summer. Again, the lather explodes and was the luxury type similar to SMN with just the right face feel. You knew you were dealing in luxury. Performance was stellar – excellent slickness and cushion. Residual slickness could have been better but at this level, these are tiny graduations. ADP seems to have the best “face feel” of luxury of all. The resultant shave was one of the best. If anything could be improved, after shave feel could have been better.
Some think there is no scent in this product but there is. It is just very faint, a very light basil/lemon. The ingredients lists Citrus Limon (Lemon) peel oil and basil. Anyone who cooks can tell you the main scent of lemon is not from the juice but from the peel. If the scent was stronger, it would be the peer to SMN Other than that, I consider ADP surely a premium product, refreshing, and a luxury. If the scent was stronger, it would be the peer of SMN at the tip of the Pyramid. ADP moves up a slot to second place tied with the next product, Boellis Panama 1924.
You don’t hear much discussion about ADP in forums. Again cost is an issue. This isn’t surprising and unlike SMN you do not get anywhere as near as much product for dollars spent. Except for ABC Cream, ADP is significantly more expensive than most other products on the market, but worth every penny.
# 2(Tie) Elite –Boellis Panama 1924
Boellis Panama 1924 was an elusive product to find. It’s available in two forms, a coffret at around $115 and a refill at $48. The coffret was available for a short time in 2016 but there was no way I could justify spending $67 on clutter. Both were out of stock about everywhere in 2016 and therefore left out of my initial analysis but the refill became available toward the end of 2016. Tied with ADP is Boellis Panama 1924.
The scent is a weak almond, not sweet. Its slickness and residual slickness is superb and I now consider it the king of cushion. Time after time, I have gotten no closer shave than with this soap. Its only weakness could be after shave feel but I no longer consider that attribute as important as a balm can make up for that. I consider Boellis Panama 1924 on par with ADP.
The cost of this soap is more reasonable than one might imagine. It falls in much cheaper than C&S, and cheaper than XPEC, Klar, and Nuavia, not to mention the much more expensive ABC, SMN, MdC, and Nuavia. One problem with Boellis is I do not find the advertised weight to be the same as the actual weight. That could be the way I measured it or not. In any case, I have to trust the advertised weight.
#3 – Antica Colla Barbiera Saponetta da Barba all’Olio di Mandorla and Sapone da Barba in Crema all’Olio di Mandorla
Otherwise known as ABC Soap and Cream, ABC doesn’t get much discussion in the virtual space compared to others either and I suspect it’s the price of entry that scares consumers. In any case I prefer the Sapponetta. Sapone da Barba in Crema, the cream, is about the most expensive game in town. ABC is about the slickest soap that exists and I think the cream was not as slick as the soap. As to the Almond scent, almond is not a favorite, a reason for why I downgrade this brand a bit. Almond paste scent belongs in pastries, not in shaving soap, but that’s just my thought.
The soap has become difficult to come by but using the cream I find this cream so slippery I’m afraid to touch anything else after touching it. Its residual slickness is better than the slickness of other soaps. This is truly an elite product just a tick below ADP and Boellis, IMO, simply because Boellis has a touch better cushion. However, if you prize slickness over cushion, then ABC is the better choice.
However, cost is always an issue and at $79 in the US, it’s hard to justify the cost for the cream when Boellis is available at $48. In terms of practicality, its something I would have to think hard about before repurchasing. However, I can’t see being without it, its that good.
#4 Elite Klar Seifen
Klar Seifen is a quintuple milled soap that comes in a classic scent, sport, almond, and lemongrass. Klar Seifen is second only to Boellis in cushion, holds up well in a scuttle, and has a classic scent that everyone would understand. After using it quite a bit, my opinion of it has moved it from a first class soap to Elite.
It was impossible to determine the cost/shave for Klar. I put the soap in a plastic tub, both classic and sport. But after 30 shaves, the weight of the tubs INCREASED rather than decreased. Despite letting them dry for a month, they both clearly gained weight.
Since C&S is a triple milled soap and Klar quintuple milled, and Klar has a few more grams of product than C&S, I took my C&S estimate and added 10%. Klar is much cheaper than C&S and therefore my estimate is 12 cents/shave. This is a stunningly good value.
#5 Elite – Martin de Candre
Moving up a slot is MdC, a product that should be no surprise to anyone. MdC has been reviewed a thousand times in a thousand places and seems a bit mundane and ordinary in this crowd. It might sound a bit funny but it seems to be the pedestrian product in this group. Meanwhile other soap companies try to emulate it and I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It’s density and the frugalness of use (i.e., it lasts a LONG time) fits in this pseudo pedestrian place among the elite, considering a single container might last a lifetime! I’m not going to try to review MdC. It’s been done over and over again and there is nothing that needs to be said that hasn't already been said. It’s an excellent product IMO worth every penny of its cost. With the addition of a Rose and Vetiver scent, they have expanded the line although they are labeled as Limited Edition. I did the same for MdC Fern, taking a measured 10g and extrapolating, and MdC came in at 54 cents. Rose and Vetiver would cost more.
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