#11

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
'by hand' could be subjective, if one wanted to waste time on a nuance like that.

James still probably had to draw up the designs in something like cad, program the machine he's using to cut the handles, tweak said program, his tooling, table, materials, etc. to get it right then spend the time to find out what type of buffing/polishing would work best on the material he's using for the handles.

at the end of the day, does it really matter? if someone wants a razor or handle from Wolfman, they'll buy it!

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
#12

Member
USA
(03-25-2018, 08:23 PM)Pete123 Wrote: I don't know what kind of equipment Wolfman has and how much is automated. This makes me think about brush makers, many of whom are on this forum. My Maggard brand brushed are nice acrylic. I would consider them mass produced. We have brush makers turning handles in acrylic. Few would consider them anything but artistic.

I make straight razor scales, which I consider handmade. I do have power tools that I use, though none that automate any of the processes. Taking the craftsmanship and lack of automation out of the equation, I can tell you that properly making and fitting a pair of straight razor scales is much, much, much harder than you would think. There may be more to getting the tolerances Wolfman achieves than you would think.

My favorite razor handle is a Maggards brand fat stainless steel handle. I would imagine that it was made on a CNC machine. I can also say that I don't consider it to be fine quality or a work of art. I had to flatten the base myself to get it to stand up correctly. Also, I'm not aware of discussion regarding which type of stainless steel he uses. There are many, many types of stainless steel and the price varies. There are knife blanks I can purchase where the 440C version is $25 and the CPMS 90V version is $100 - same product made from different steel.

My point in all of this is not to stand up for Wolfman. I don't follow him and don't have any of his products. I guess my point is that things can be more complicated than you think.


I think these are all excellent points. Very well said Sir.


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#13

Administrator
Philadelphia, PA
(03-25-2018, 07:08 PM)Blagoja Rajevski Wrote: every machinist is an artist, Wolfman razors are more expensive because he is spending lots of time on polishing. Here is the problem, after 1 year of usage that polish will start to show fading away. Todays razor heads and top caps are machined by CNC and not manual milling. He does put a lot of work in his razors but the hardest part which is milling the top cap and base plate is done by the CNC, I can only imagine if he would of tried to do it manually himself it would take him too long and probably there would be variety in geometry from one razor to another, computer production is much more accurate and faster.

So lets summon the artistry down:

1. Head and top cap made by machine
2. Handles also made by CNC ( the machine itself?)
3. Wolfman polishing them and designing the razors and uploaded files in the computer so the CNC can produce them.

As you see the machine produces them and he does the final touch up, from what I heard on his own he can finish 10 razors daily ( that's what I heard while back, he might be producing more because you only get better and faster over time), 10 razors times nowadays cost is around $400 US dollars? That's $4000 a day. That should be around - + $120.000 a month minus lets say $10.000 -$15.000 in shop expenses and PP and other escrow payment fees etc.

Then there are people like me who actually do use the tools but there is no computer to cut stuff for me, lay out or do the installation, everything I do is practically done from scratch and I earn a year less than he earns in a month for polishing his designs. So what is so confusing about understanding  his business model? Lots and lots of money, money is the driving force.

Here are few pics of what I do from scratch, so tell me where the true artistry is?
(removed pics)


I understand admiring a product, but don't give all the props of the product outcome to the worker when a computer guided machine does 90%+ of the manufacturing the product... Many people admire his products, but mostly all know PC machine is producing the pieces for him and he is just adding and removing milling bits and metal blocks for the product.... I admire the Wolfman razor looks too, but you are dishonest with your admiration and you are entering the fanboy section, soon enough someone from the forum will buy you cheerleading skirt and pompoms.


do you know how to run a lathe and/or cnc machine? I bet most don't. I don't.

nice tile work, but do note, you're comparing apples to oranges here. James is working with metal, so how else could it be done 'by hand' but on a machine?

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Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
#14
(03-25-2018, 08:16 PM)Vinny Champion Wrote:
(03-25-2018, 07:46 PM)Blagoja Rajevski Wrote: I'm not attacking you for admiring, I'm pointing out that you are waving with your pompoms too high.

1. Do you realize that 90% of the Wolfman razors is done by a computerized machine and not by his hands?
2. Do you realize the amount he earns is mostly in polishing and exchanging bits and metal blocks

You are not admiring, you are becoming a fanboy and raising machinist skills to a god like pedestal when in fact if there is anyone to be put on the pedestal is the CNC machine that he uses...


Who me? I think you may be confusing me with someone else. I prefer Charcoal Goods and paradigm.


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I thought it was OP that replied my bad, still im on point if there is anyone to be praised now a days for making precise shaving instruments is not the human hands but the mill that's equipped with computer.

What is there to try and understand Wolfman business moto with the razors? Money and lots of it, while the machine does 90% of the work he is polishing which is 10% of the work. If he would of try and make his razors manual, they would never be as perfect as they are and he would have to charge $2000 per razor and he can not run business like that.

If there is anyone to be praised for the perfection in razors we have today, then lets praise the real deal which is the Mill + Computer
#15
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2018, 08:59 PM by Blagoja Rajevski.)
(03-25-2018, 08:47 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote:
(03-25-2018, 07:08 PM)Blagoja Rajevski Wrote: every machinist is an artist, Wolfman razors are more expensive because he is spending lots of time on polishing. Here is the problem, after 1 year of usage that polish will start to show fading away. Todays razor heads and top caps are machined by CNC and not manual milling. He does put a lot of work in his razors but the hardest part which is milling the top cap and base plate is done by the CNC, I can only imagine if he would of tried to do it manually himself it would take him too long and probably there would be variety in geometry from one razor to another, computer production is much more accurate and faster.

So lets summon the artistry down:

1. Head and top cap made by machine
2. Handles also made by CNC ( the machine itself?)
3. Wolfman polishing them and designing the razors and uploaded files in the computer so the CNC can produce them.

As you see the machine produces them and he does the final touch up, from what I heard on his own he can finish 10 razors daily ( that's what I heard while back, he might be producing more because you only get better and faster over time), 10 razors times nowadays cost is around $400 US dollars? That's $4000 a day. That should be around - + $120.000 a month minus lets say $10.000 -$15.000 in shop expenses and PP and other escrow payment fees etc.

Then there are people like me who actually do use the tools but there is no computer to cut stuff for me, lay out or do the installation, everything I do is practically done from scratch and I earn a year less than he earns in a month for polishing his designs. So what is so confusing about understanding  his business model? Lots and lots of money, money is the driving force.

Here are few pics of what I do from scratch, so tell me where the true artistry is?
(removed pics)


I understand admiring a product, but don't give all the props of the product outcome to the worker when a computer guided machine does 90%+ of the manufacturing the product... Many people admire his products, but mostly all know PC machine is producing the pieces for him and he is just adding and removing milling bits and metal blocks for the product.... I admire the Wolfman razor looks too, but you are dishonest with your admiration and you are entering the fanboy section, soon enough someone from the forum will buy you cheerleading skirt and pompoms.


do you know how to run a lathe and/or cnc machine?  I bet most don't.  I don't.  

nice tile work, but do note, you're comparing apples to oranges here.  James is working with metal, so how else could it be done 'by hand' but on a machine?

No but I did worked here in my youth https://www.clubeconomy.com.mk/detali.aspx?id=273 This factory is still running on manual mills and they produce grinding machines from small coffee shops to gigantic lines of them for mass grinding, I know what manual milling labor looks like, I worked at the shop for 2 years
#16
(03-25-2018, 08:41 PM)andrewjs18 Wrote: 'by hand' could be subjective, if one wanted to waste time on a nuance like that.

James still probably had to draw up the designs in something like cad, program the machine he's using to cut the handles, tweak said program, his tooling, table, materials, etc. to get it right then spend the time to find out what type of buffing/polishing would work best on the material he's using for the handles.  

at the end of the day, does it really matter?  if someone wants a razor or handle from Wolfman, they'll buy it!
Andrew go and ask Wolfman if he is capable of producing razors precise like his CNC does. Then ask him how much his razors would of cost if he attempted to mill them himself manually
#17
I doubt James is polishing up 50-70 razors a week, that would be pure hell on your hands.
#18
(03-25-2018, 09:12 PM)iShave Wrote: I doubt James is polishing up 50-70 razors a week, that would be pure hell on your hands.
If there is a demand and money are worth it which they are he can, naturally the man does takes breaks. He can afford to take a whole month off from his work and rest.

If I only show you how my hands look like along with the MRI scans from my back and neck, those are the results of 20 years heavy labor + artistry. The skin on my hands is so crude that once a week I have to use GEM PTFE blade to cut away the build up of dead skin.
#19
Just some thoughts of my own... And I am far from an expert on machining razors (or machining anything for that matter)... But, if what James does was so easy, he wouldn't be the only one doing it. There's a reason why many razor makers refuse to offer high polished razors (especially regularly)... Its because it's time consuming, tedious, and hell on your hands! I've heard quite a few machinists and razor makers criticize James' work/production until they started doing it themselves and said, "I don't know how he does it". It's not as easy as it seems or else his razors wouldn't be in as high of demand, as everyone would be capable of producing high polished razors, which is not the case. Criticize the business model all you want (I certainly have) but you can't argue with the finished product and what he does to produce it (regardless if it's assisted by machines).

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#20
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2018, 09:46 PM by Blagoja Rajevski.)
(03-25-2018, 09:34 PM)Carryonsteadynow Wrote: Just some thoughts of my own... And I am far from an expert on machining razors (or machining anything for that matter)... But, if what James does was so easy, he wouldn't be the only one doing it. There's a reason why many razor makers refuse to offer high polished razors (especially regularly)... Its because it's time consuming, tedious, and hell on your hands! I've heard quite a few machinists and razor makers criticize James' work/production until they started doing it themselves and said, "I don't know how he does it". It's not as easy as it seems or else his razors wouldn't be in as high of demand, as everyone would be capable of producing high polished razors, which is not the case. Criticize the business model all you want (I certainly have) but you can't argue with the finished product and what he does to produce it (regardless if it's assisted by machines).

The razor production is not only assisted by the CNC but produced completely by the CNC, you are correct the polishing does take time no doubt and James probably goes back and forth in his shop from the CNC back to the buffing table, rinse and repeat.

What you mean you have heard machinist saying they don't know how he does it because they tried it and they cant achieve those results? or maybe you have heard this from razor manufacturer who is in contract with machinist shop that is producing their razors? If that's the case of course they will say they don't know how James does it, because machine shop charges $80 per hour for polishing... Its doable and any experienced machinist can do it, its just time consuming and at hourly rate of $80, well you know the rest....

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