I Have Hit The "Wall"

eeyore thanks for that link. Interesting approach. While I don’t think I’d interpret anyone’s comments here or elsewhere on DFS as trying to rally people together to stop buying stuff, neither would I have a problem if members actually tried to do that unless of course their behaviour became harassing towards other members.  When members read the experiences of other members, both good and bad, it helps us to realize that many people experience and sometimes struggle with many of the same concerns they do.

...That will impact sales for sure when your best customers are on a no buy break....

Interesting you mention this.  These discussions are forbidden on TSN; TSN and 'Restraints'/'Sabbaticals'

Bullgoose, understandably isn't into promoting abstinence.

This has to be the second most idiotic rule I have ever seen on the internet.

Interesting you mention this.  These discussions are forbidden on TSN; TSN and 'Restraints'/'Sabbaticals'

Bullgoose, understandably isn't into promoting abstinence.

This has to be the second most idiotic rule I have ever seen on the internet.

they did it because the owner, Phil, owns a shaving store (bullgoose shaving) as well as the forum. they can try to dance around it with witty words as much as they want, but we can read between the lines...

personally, I think taking a break, reevaluating all of your products, etc.., is part of the process of wet shaving.

Interesting you mention this.  These discussions are forbidden on TSN; TSN and 'Restraints'/'Sabbaticals'

Bullgoose, understandably isn't into promoting abstinence.

This has to be the second most idiotic rule I have ever seen on the internet.

And the first?

I wouldn't tell anyone to stop buying. Shoot, I enjoyed the heck out of it and learned a ton. Wouldn't deny that fun to anyone. I just don't need that kind of fun anymore but still love to read about other people's experience with things. (And I still buy stuff.)

Interesting you mention this.  These discussions are forbidden on TSN; TSN and 'Restraints'/'Sabbaticals'

Bullgoose, understandably isn't into promoting abstinence.

This has to be the second most idiotic rule I have ever seen on the internet.

And the first?

First would be rule that prevents you from posting links to websites on an... internet forum.

I really cannot distinguish much if any difference as regards pure performance amongst most good soaps so it's time for me to push away from the artisan "merry go round" as this "oneupmanship" for market relevancy has worn me (and my wallet) down. Time to put down the Kool-Aid.

How can people massively collect artisan soaps now? Many of them are really expensive now, as in Art of Shaving expensive. Even if they are as good as AoS, it is more convenient to take a 5 minute drive to the store and buy an AoS soap or cream. I would rather get one of the artisan soaps that is still a great value for the money. $25? Nah, I'll pass. Besides, Van Der Hagen Luxury soap is only $3-$4, and is plenty good enough for me.

Oneupmanship for relevancy is to be expected in such a crowded marketplace. The numbers of soap vendors nowadays is truly amazing, far, far more than a few years ago. It must be hard to stand out in such a crowded field. I tried soaps in sequence, using one up before trying another. It seems boring now that I have identified a number of "champagne" soaps, so I am done.

No, you're definitely not alone with that sentiment BPman. It actually gives me anxiety sometimes then I try to sell a bunch of it or just give it away.

Tell me about it.  Who knew soap could stress you out.

That is worrisome. Traditional wetshaving is supposed to make people happy, not stress them out. On several occasions, I have mentioned that I do not collect, and have gotten responses along the lines of "I wish I could do that" or "You are lucky". I thought they were being facetious, and hope that was the case, but maybe they were serious.

That is not meant to be judgmental. IMHO, each one of us deserves a relaxing, happy experience, the peaceful zen of wetshaving, with tons of gear or just the basics.

I will venture an educated guess that of those who left many go back to the convenience of cartridge/disposable razors and some merely shave along with a bare bones safety razor kit that simply works for them. Not everyone goes full "moonbat" and starts spending Big $$. As well, I'd wager good money there are far more lurkers reading shaving forums than posters. It would be interesting however to know what % of business at WCS & Maggard was repeat and what % was new in the past year. I do know Brad Maggard has stated that the "Goldrush" days of a few years back have ended.

On most forums I have seen, about ten percent of the total membership is active at any point in time. That is a very rough estimate based on casual observation. It might well be that people come here to get started in wetshaving, learn what they needed, and then depart. I totally agree about the lurkers, which would mean a forum's influence is much greater than total membership numbers would suggest. On most forums I have read, I got the information I wanted and then left without ever registering.

The gold rush days ending might be due to the target market getting saturated. Or it could be that more and more guys are wearing beards and shaving less, as some media outlets have reported. It could also be the case that people are once again prioritizing shaving experiences over inventory, as it was a decade ago.

Really, what is the point of this post on a shaving hobbyist forum? Are you trying to make everybody feel bad about it? If you've really "hit the wall" why do you even come here anymore?

At first, I thought that post was really offensive. But you know what? You're right. The wetshaving forum subculture has now become something much different than shaving with traditional tools and products. There are a lot of norms, customs and unwritten rules and expectations that differentiate it from its generic ancestor. I'm a shaving with traditional tools and products kind of guy, and not at all into the expectations part. I am thankful for all that I have learned on the various forums over the years, however. I don't really relate to forum shaving anymore, but do realize that it is very appealing to some.

I appreciate your thoughts Tbone and while I have seen examples of stressed out people behaving badly in forums for a variety of reasons I assume.  They couldn't get the release they wanted or they were disappointed in something or other but my own comment was intended facetiously - not what I'd call real can I make my monthly payments or will that medical test come back positive type of stress,  more a wow I've got too much stuff here stress.  Now if a person was prone to anxiety and so forth then maybe its a problem but for most I'd say its a humorous matter that provides your spouse with some ammunition in her own defence if you ever complain about her bathroom clutter.

As far as whether the glory days of wet shaving are past I would have to say that I don't think so.  Despite current trends in beards, which have historically gone in and out of style, men will continue to want a good shave.  I taught my son wet shaving with DE / brush / soap and I don't think he'll ever use carts/cans and I imagine he'll teach his (future) son to shave the same way.  There will always be a market for good, functional  shaving gear, the question is, who will be providing it.  

Plenty of artisans want to be at the high end of the market and provide luxury products at a high price - I mean isn't that the goal of every person making and selling stuff?  Make the best stuff that will command the highest price and make them the most money.  Of course the reality is that not everyone wants to pay for the most expensive stuff so the artisans that survive will have to find the sweet spot where price, quality and demand intersect to give them maximum return.  The challenge will be how do you distinguish your product in an increasingly crowded marketplace.  Performance quality is a good place to start but unless you're able to develop some sort of proprietary product that is both excellent and can't be duplicated (legally) then any innovations you develop will eventually trickle down - like generics in the prescription drug marketplace and quality cheap products will compete with you with products that are as good as yours.  Even if the barrier to duplication is that you use ridiculously expensive ingredients you still have to contend with the fact that the market may not want to pay that much more for something that may or may not be that much better. Maybe you can compete on fragrance - that is a very challenging thing and not everyone is equally gifted or gifted at all and even those that are don't hit a home run every time.  Its subjective and the market is fickle.  

I think the ones that survive will have to be responsive to the market.  They'll have to provide excellent products at competitive prices and they will need to broaden their market and their inventory with classes of product to serve every niche - possibly using several brands to distinguish high end from mid-range or entry level but its all got to perform well.  Will we see consolidation in the market?  One brand buying other brands to achieve economies of scale.  Up to now when an artisan has gone out of business they've just stopped.  Why not sell the brand if there is any goodwill associated with it?  I'm not saying I want to see Proctor & Gamble buying up artisan brands but I could imagine for example Barrister & Mann acquiring Mike's Natural, Declaration Grooming, Wholly Kaw and a few others and continuing to operate them under their brands.  I'm using those names as and example but it could just as easily be the other way around.  It would all depend on who has that goal and who has the $$.  

I think the market is maturing and while it will continue it may not look the same.  No matter who or how many grow into the powerhouses, there will always be the small artisans entering (and leaving) the marketplace and they will keep the pressure on the big guys to continue to evolve and innovate.  It should be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.

No, you're definitely not alone with that sentiment BPman. It actually gives me anxiety sometimes then I try to sell a bunch of it or just give it away.

I've been on this forum for a few years and I've seen members come and go.  I've sometimes wondered about the abrupt disappearance of formerly very active members and I'm sure there's any number of reasons, however, I have to wonder if a shaving acquisition disorder 12 step program might have been involved.  My name is Earl, and I'm a shave-a-holic....

Life has been busy and not so good for me (some parts).  My mother has been going down hill and I've had my own issues.  I hit the wall awhile ago though and have nothing new to add to conversations because I haven't been buying new things.  I do lurk/read here at least 2-3 times a week though.  I have a new interest in the last year or two......fragrances (EDTs, EDPs, etc.)  I only have about 10 or 15 though and I am done buying those also..  I learned my lesson with shaving.  I am not collecting fragrances and refuse to have 150 100 ml bottles of fragrance sitting around that I will never use in my lifetime.  I do miss talking with some of you though.