Experience with the Viking Blade?

I have both Baili and chieftain and for me the chieftain is smoother. But the Baili shaves well too so I don’t discourage anyone who wants the Baili.

I like the chieftains build quality a bit more and I like the extra weight of the chieftain. Again it’s all personal, my friend is the opposite and he likes the Baili more and that’s cool.

Sorry I misread the amazon stuff, so yes 43 deleted is not good.

I like good value for the money as well, yes I do agree that the chieftain is overpriced, I think that 25 USD should be it’s price range. But I do find they make the better TTO razors until someone else comes along.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You answered your own question about why people, "Freak out," over VB. It basically a complete ripoff IMO.

The point of my rant wasn’t really about price per say, but more about that Baili were the ones that cloned their design and how in reddit and B&B all these theories coming out. Before anybody derails a company, we should hear all the facts.

I mean there are merkur 34 c type clones and the same for Edwin Jagger for much less. The RazoRock mentor is $16, for an Edwin Jagger Clone, does that mean that merkur and Edwin’s Jagger are a complete rip off? To some maybe.

I sold my merkur because it had lousy blade alignment for a razor that isn’t cheap. I don’t have any merkurs because for me there are much better options.

Is anybody going to buy a merkur future now that ming shi sells it for less? I guess the merkur is a rip off. Yes I am playing devils advocate and to each his own. And that is completely fine because I buy clones too and you get what you pay for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last I checked in to that discussion, quite some time ago, it was unclear to participants just how the Baili razor was an interior copy, and the reps for Vikings were not very helpful in providing that info beyond claims that they were not the same.

I bought a Futur after buying the Q-Shave so that's at least one (though I bought it used). I did so because I understood how the Futur is different and worth a certain premium, which I think it is.

You answered your own question about why people, "Freak out," over VB. It basically a complete ripoff IMO.

The point of my rant wasn’t really about price per say, but more about that Baili were the ones that cloned their design and how in reddit and B&B all these theories coming out. Before anybody derails a company, we should hear all the facts.

I mean there are merkur 34 c type clones and the same for Edwin Jagger for much less. The RazoRock mentor is $16, for an Edwin Jagger Clone, does that mean that merkur and Edwin’s Jagger are a complete rip off? To some maybe.

I sold my merkur because it had lousy blade alignment for a razor that isn’t cheap. I don’t have any merkurs because for me there are much better options.

Is anybody going to buy a merkur future now that ming shi sells it for less? I guess the merkur is a rip off. Yes I am playing devils advocate and to each his own. And that is completely fine because I buy clones too and you get what you pay for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Last I checked in to that discussion, quite some time ago, it was unclear to participants just how the Baili razor was an interior copy, and the reps for Vikings were not very helpful in providing that info beyond claims that they were not the same.

I bought a Futur after buying the Q-Shave so that's at least one (though I bought it used). I did so because I understood how the Futur is different and worth a certain premium, which I think it is.

I absolutely agree that VB didn’t help in the PR department and that they should have provided their patent claim.

But hey, I could be all wrong with all of this lol.

I will stop posting on this topic. I just wanted to post the patents I Found in VB to update the thread. I wasn’t trying to stir up any controversy. I am not trying to push their products.

This is the best shave forum out there and I am glad to share a good conversation with all of you.

Here is a link of their explanation from which to draw ones own conclusions.

https://vikingsblade.com/pages/vikings-b...e-as-baili

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The point of my rant wasn’t really about price per say, but more about that Baili were the ones that cloned their design and how in reddit and B&B all these theories coming out that VB were losers, that it’s bailie razor. Etc....Before anybody derails a company, we should hear all the facts.

While the virtually identical appearance of the two razors might lead to confusion, I think the real issue is that VB is charging a premium for a Chinese-made product.  Manufacturers of diverse products have done this, leading consumers to be rather wary and suspicious.  Chinese manufactured products have the reputation of being very moderate quality, so such rebranding and price increases go over very badly with consumers.  They are rightly fed up.  

As far as many people are concerned, Vikings Blade razors are Baili razors because they are made by Baili.  To the consumer, that automatically implies less than stellar quality regardless of the razor model or who designed it.  People expect very low prices for such items, and cry foul if a premium is charged for any reason.  This is made all the worse because of what appears to them  to be an identical item being sold for far less money.

The point I am making is that Clones from China will always come to market for far less and super cheap. So I guess when an artisan makes a razor wait for the China clone to come out later?

Perhaps that would be a good strategy in some cases.  The quality level might not be as high as for artisan-made originals, though.  The artisans should know better than to get their products made in China, unless they want to chase the bottom end of the market and be undersold by copies of their products.

Is anybody going to buy a merkur future now that ming shi sells it for less? I guess the merkur is a rip off.

I seriously doubt that a Chinese made product will have quality equal to a German made product selling for many times more.  The Futur is an agressive razor, the Ming Shi 2000S is much less so.  For that reason, some people would prefer the Ming Shi over the Merkur orginal even if their cost was the same.

Anyways all this to say that VB do have a patent claim , which in my opinion if VB are claiming that then they should post it as I did, and Baili did release a statement claiming VB design was original.

Most consumers don't give a rat's rear about patent claims or violations.

Here is a link of their explanation from which to draw ones own conclusions.

https://vikingsblade.com/pages/vikings-b...e-as-baili

The page at that link comes off as whining by Vikings Blade.  From the article:

"For obvious reasons we won't disclose much info."

Then why would anyone read past that point?  Then they go on to discuss dry and sometimes irrelevant details in a very lengthy explanation.  Boring and whiny.  Who is running Vullion's marketing department anyways?

"In conclusion, the Chieftain is not the same as the BD179. The Chieftain has gone through multiple revisions which mostly are heavier than the BD179 and produce significantly different shaves. It is obvious that the BD179 very closely resembles one of our mid-releases."

So the BD179 is very close to one of the Chieftain models.  No wonder people are claiming they are the same.  They were at one point.  Also, heavier is not necessarily better.  Balance is also important, and some folks actually prefer lighter razors.

Vullion's / Vikings Blade's problems are business, marketing and PR issues IMHO.  It is not that I think their razors are bad, just that their problems are largely self-inflicted.  

From the Chieftan product page at https://vikingsblade.com/collections/saf...ravel-case :

"The original patented and sought-after The Chieftain razor, made from premium high-end heavy duty Swedish materials & superb quality control, not cheap metals like other identical clones (Same-same but different)"

So the design is identical except for the materials?  That seems to contradict what they said elsewhere, and only adds to the confusion.  Now even I am wondering if the Chieftain and BD179 are all that different.  Why don't they just point out their good qualities instead of throwing rocks at other razors?  That comes off as playing the victim, which is likely a sales inhibitor.

Vullion, in case any of you are reading this, you seriously need to hire an experienced marketing person or at least a marketing consultant.  If your razors really are all that different from Baili copies, the public needs to be accurately informed about it in an engaging and effective manner. Otherwise, wetshavers are going to continue to think, however mistakenly, that you are charging $36 for a $14 razor.

The point of my rant wasn’t really about price per say, but more about that Baili were the ones that cloned their design and how in reddit and B&B all these theories coming out that VB were losers, that it’s bailie razor. Etc....Before anybody derails a company, we should hear all the facts.

While the virtually identical appearance of the two razors might lead to confusion, I think the real issue is that VB is charging a premium for a Chinese-made product.  Manufacturers of diverse products have done this, leading consumers to be rather wary and suspicious.  Chinese manufactured products have the reputation of being very moderate quality, so such rebranding and price increases go over very badly with consumers.  They are rightly fed up.  

As far as many people are concerned, Vikings Blade razors are Baili razors because they are made by Baili.  To the consumer, that automatically implies less than stellar quality regardless of the razor model or who designed it.  People expect very low prices for such items, and cry foul if a premium is charged for any reason.  This is made all the worse because of what appears to them  to be an identical item being sold for far less money.

The point I am making is that Clones from China will always come to market for far less and super cheap. So I guess when an artisan makes a razor wait for the China clone to come out later?

Perhaps that would be a good strategy in some cases.  The quality level might not be as high as for artisan-made originals, though.  The artisans should know better than to get their products made in China, unless they want to chase the bottom end of the market and be undersold by copies of their products.

Is anybody going to buy a merkur future now that ming shi sells it for less? I guess the merkur is a rip off.

I seriously doubt that a Chinese made product will have quality equal to a German made product selling for many times more.  The Futur is an agressive razor, the Ming Shi 2000S is much less so.  For that reason, some people would prefer the Ming Shi over the Merkur orginal even if their cost was the same.

Anyways all this to say that VB do have a patent claim , which in my opinion if VB are claiming that then they should post it as I did, and Baili did release a statement claiming VB design was original.

Most consumers don't give a rat's rear about patent claims or violations.

Here is a link of their explanation from which to draw ones own conclusions.

https://vikingsblade.com/pages/vikings-b...e-as-baili

The page at that link comes off as whining by Vikings Blade.  From the article:

"For obvious reasons we won't disclose much info."

Then why would anyone read past that point?  Then they go on to discuss dry and sometimes irrelevant details in a very lengthy explanation.  Boring and whiny.  Who is running Vullion's marketing department anyways?

"In conclusion, the Chieftain is not the same as the BD179. The Chieftain has gone through multiple revisions which mostly are heavier than the BD179 and produce significantly different shaves. It is obvious that the BD179 very closely resembles one of our mid-releases."

So the BD179 is very close to one of the Chieftain models.  No wonder people are claiming they are the same.  They were at one point.  Also, heavier is not necessarily better.  Balance is also important, and some folks actually prefer lighter razors.

Vullion's / Vikings Blade's problems are business, marketing and PR issues IMHO.  It is not that I think their razors are bad, just that their problems are largely self-inflicted.  

From the Chieftan product page at https://vikingsblade.com/collections/saf...ravel-case :

"The original patented and sought-after The Chieftain razor, made from premium high-end heavy duty Swedish materials & superb quality control, not cheap metals like other identical clones (Same-same but different)"

So the design is identical except for the materials?  That seems to contradict what they said elsewhere, and only adds to the confusion.  Now even I am wondering if the Chieftain and BD179 are all that different.  Why don't they just point out their good qualities instead of throwing rocks at other razors?  That comes off as playing the victim, which is likely a sales inhibitor.

Vullion, in case any of you are reading this, you seriously need to hire an experienced marketing person or at least a marketing consultant.  If your razors really are all that different from Baili copies, the public needs to be accurately informed about it in an engaging and effective manner. Otherwise, wetshavers are going to continue to think, however mistakenly, that you are charging $36 for a $14 razor.

You comment just blew me out of the water. Nicely said!

I tend to buy better quality razors like the REX, PAA and RazoRock stainless steel razors.

But I do buy the cheap razors to make comparisons.

I honestly as a consumer would prefer that artisans design manufacture their own razors rather than a rebrand. why rebrand a razor...just sell it what it really is.

Yes and I agree that VB PR issues are self inflicted which does lead to a credibility problem.

Douglas Smythe said it best , to paraphrase “Why go for the lowest common denominator “

I have a DE1 (Baili) from RazoRock and that razor is awesome for me at $5 and has covered blade tabs and perfect blade alignment.

So I do agree that rebrands should not go for 3 times the price. It’s hard to find good modern TTO razors.....at least I have my vintage Gillette’s so why am I complaining!

I have yet to try the new Wilkinson sword from the UK. Maybe that will be better than the VB or Baili. Who knows

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hmmm... Interesting.  While I stand by me earlier comments about Vikings Blade's PR, it looks like the really is a difference between the two razors now.  The doors on the heads of the two razors appear to be different on the inside.

From the Official Statement by Baili: Vikings Blade Chieftain is Not the Same as BD179 statement on PR Newswire:

"(9) As of 2017-Jul-01, the Vikings Chieftain and the Baili BD179 will no longer share the same base platform and there will be no references of Baili on the Chieftain anymore. The Chieftain will now utilize its early more advanced prototype which Baili originally found too complex to make."

It seems that this really is true.  The head design appears to differ between the two razors now, and there might be other differences.  Are the differences worth an extra $23?  

Dummy me, I should have looked at the pictures.




Top - From the Vikings Blade Chieftain Amazon page
Bottom - From the Baili BD179 Amazon page

Note the differences in the "ribs" on the silo doors.

Gentlemen,

I am Tristan, product designer of Vullion Group (Vikings Blade).
A massive thank to you, especially gLet and Tbone for clearing things up for us.

Our family has been terribly neglecting our online presence (especially on forums) and this is the first time I came across your posts.
Apparently there is another account called VikingsBlade here, but I believe it was created by a former marketing/SEO person from India whom we found on ODesk.
(We never really bothered checking any SEO-purposed articles or accounts that he posted, as long as our website always appeared on top of Google Search for Vikings Blade. This was a very big mistake. We parted on good terms nevertheless.)

On this occasion, please accept my sincere apologies for having created a mess in terms of PR and marketing over the past many years.

I know it's unforgivable but from today onward, if you gentlemen may allow, I will slowly try to clear up any misunderstandings.

Prior to this, we have only communicated with customers via our website, email and Amazon (and a bit on Facebook/Instagram).

I will start visiting this forum more often. I hope you gentlemen will share with me your thoughts on our products so that we can do better in the future, and I truly mean it.

==========================
Tristan
Vullion Group / Vikings Blade

PS: In regards to the FAKE review speculation, we have never engaged in such activity and never will. It is against Amazon T&C. Over the past 2 years, Amazon developed a review bot which automatically removes thousands of legitimate reviews from many honest businesses. We don't know exactly why, but apparently it deletes accounts that have only 1 or 2 reviews, or accounts that give all 5-stars (which appears to be fake), or accounts that give all 1-star (which appears to be set up by competitors). This is known by many sellers as the Great Amazon Review Purge. Please do not mistake this for us engaging in fake reviews.

Gentlemen,

I am Tristan, product designer of Vullion Group (Vikings Blade).
A massive thank to you, especially gLet and Tbone for clearing things up for us.

Our family has been terribly neglecting our online presence (especially on forums) and this is the first time I came across your posts.
Apparently there is another account called VikingsBlade here, but I believe it was created by a former marketing/SEO person from India whom we found on ODesk.
(We never really bothered checking any SEO-purposed articles or accounts that he posted, as long as our website always appeared on top of Google Search for Vikings Blade. This was a very big mistake. We parted on good terms nevertheless.)

On this occasion, please accept my sincere apologies for having created a mess in terms of PR and marketing over the past many years.

I know it's unforgivable but from today onward, if you gentlemen may allow, I will slowly try to clear up any misunderstandings.

Prior to this, we have only communicated with customers via our website, email and Amazon (and a bit on Facebook/Instagram).

I will start visiting this forum more often. I hope you gentlemen will share with me your thoughts on our products so that we can do better in the future, and I truly mean it.

==========================
Tristan
Vullion Group / Vikings Blade

PS: In regards to the FAKE review speculation, we have never engaged in such activity and never will. It is against Amazon T&C. Over the past 2 years, Amazon developed a review bot which automatically removes thousands of legitimate reviews from many honest businesses. We don't know exactly why, but apparently it deletes accounts that have only 1 or 2 reviews, or accounts that give all 5-stars (which appears to be fake), or accounts that give all 1-star (which appears to be set up by competitors). This is known by many sellers as the Great Amazon Review Purge. Please do not mistake this for us engaging in fake reviews.

Hi Tristan and welcome to the forum! All the folks here are super awesome! You are always welcome.

We are all passionate about shaving and it’s encouraging when razor artisans/manufacturers/designers etc...participate and reach out to the community. It’s positive and constructive.

It is great that you have/are sorting out your PR processes and it’s great that you reached out to the community and customers. You have my respect for that.

For me I look at reputable wet shavers YouTube videos for reviews on razor/soaps and this shave forum, for me that’s the best way I like to see products and hear about the the pros and cons about products. But for me, I still make my own judgements about a product by actually trying it. A negative review that one person or a group of people give is just an opinion. All our faces are unique. What works for one doesn’t work for another.

For me it’s all about shave and that is what really matters!

Michael Freedberg said it best “buy something because you like it”

And what I add to that is.....Ignore all the background noise because a $500 razor isn’t going to give you a better Shave.

Thanks!

P.S. I think you need to make 10 posts before PMs are enabled. Or you can contact the administrator


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thank you gLet. I am very excited to be a member of this forum.

I believe with our sincerity the wet shaving community will slowly accept us.

Now I will go to other post about the Emperor razor and offer my insight there.

All I can say is that I recently purchased a Vikings Blade Godfather Stonehenge Edition razor and just love it. Great weight, feel and control. Mild but efficient shave.