#31

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
Hahahaha. Oh the irony just makes me laugh.

"He cannot ramp up production to meet demand. He simply can't do it. It's not intentional at all!"

But he can develop and create an entirely new product line to meet demand.

Riiiiiight....


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-Chris~Head Shaver~
#32
Several years ago I met a nearby shirt maker on a clothing forum. Geographic advantage let me drop in and order 8 shirts; all cotton, white, no chest pocket, no plaquet buttons, no damn monograms, French cuffs. I produced enough vintage French MOP buttons for 16 shirts. He noted the number and I gifted him the balance. He's sitting there with this ridiculously easy order and a 4 month backlog became two weeks before starting.
Guy posts with specific spacing between buttons down to millimeters after shrinkage and wanting MOP buttons. My Belgian shirt maker responded by declining his business and PMed me not to reveal his shop location ( poster was in L.A.) Guy got POed, said he would be out of business within the year and what was he supposed to do for shirts now? My shirt maker replied J.C. Penny and used the MOPs on shirts for a young Chello player with the L.A. Philharmonic struggling to put together white tie.
I'm sitting in a now closed Provencal restaurant not far from Gareth's Handlebar shop with a date I rolled pennies to finance even then working. Couple sit next to us and the man gives me a curious look, leans over and says ' I know this sounds odd, but is your shirt maker from Belgium?' I answer in the affirmative and notice his shirt has a certain familiarity. We smile and he quietly had the Sommelier replace our house wine with a lovely Bordeaux.
This is the internet. it can be a miserable medium to actually connect with people. Sometimes those old courtesies and shopping skills of our grandparents still work.

Forged and Tbone like this post
#33
I raise this issue again. The market drives resellers, resellers do not drive resellers. You want to put the resellers "out of business" produce more. Not too sure why this concept is still not flying as it pretains to Wolfman Razors. I draw your attention to to three real examples;

IB baby smooth. Retailing on EBay for $100+ before production ramped up again, can now be had for $40 shipped.

Paladin brushes. Retail on EBay for $200+ For 26mm before production ramped up, can now be had for $150 shipped.

IB stainless steel slants, a modest $200 before production, now can easily be had from IB, retail free shipping.

Now a beat up ol Weber sells for $175 + and no one bats an eye. No one goes bezerk about the 2.5 X price gouging (they sold for a modest $75).

I think maybe a reset on blaming resellers and a little more thought to the possibility that lower production may benefit a lot more people than we think. I speak in general rather than specifically.

Lastly and most important, I purchased my Wolfman razors before the prices went up. I can recall the reason for the price hike (actually printed on the website at the time) was so the owner could turn his attention to other custom projects, thus higher prices would (in his mind) curtail purchases..it did the opposite. I'm not judging, just restating what was on the website of the day. I think we need to be a bit more conscious about all the factors that brought the razors to this point.

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#34

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(05-09-2017, 04:16 PM)Hardtop01 Wrote: I raise this issue again.  The market drives resellers, resellers do not drive resellers.  You want to put the resellers "out of business" produce more.  Not too sure why this concept is still not flying as it pretains to Wolfman Razors.  I draw your attention to to three real examples;

IB baby smooth.  Retailing on EBay for $100+ before production ramped up again, can now be had for $40 shipped.

Paladin brushes.  Retail on EBay for $200+ For 26mm before production ramped up, can now be had for $150 shipped.

IB stainless steel slants, a modest $200 before production, now can easily be had from IB, retail free shipping.

Now a beat up ol Weber sells for $175 + and no one bats an eye.   No one goes bezerk about the 2.5 X price gouging (they sold for a modest $75).

I think maybe a reset on blaming resellers and a little more thought to the possibility that lower production may benefit a lot more people than we think.  I speak in general rather than specifically.

Lastly and most important, I purchased my Wolfman razors before the prices went up.  I can recall the reason for the price hike (actually printed on the website at the time) was so the owner could turn his attention to other custom projects, thus higher prices would (in his mind) curtail purchases..it did the opposite.  I'm not judging, just restating what was on the website of the day.  I think we need to be a bit more conscious about all the factors that brought the razors to this point.
Perfectly stated, and with much more decorum than I could muster.

Increase the price or increase the production. The only 2 real ways in which a manufacturer can prevent resellers. If the manufacturer does not ramp up production or pricing, the market for resale markups will always exist.

It's really that simple. Stop blaming the guy taking advantage of a wide open market, and start placing it where it lies...with the manufacturers. I'm not saying the manufacturers are wrong for keeping low productivity and high demand, I'm simply saying they are aware of resellers, they are aware of how the market operates, and they are intentionally keeping things as they are for their own benefit.

And they are appeasing the masses by saying, "Well, I don't sell to that guy anymore", which is fundamentally flawed at the most basic level of logic. People just don't want to see it for what it really is...

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-Chris~Head Shaver~
#35

Veni, vidi, vici
Vault 111
(05-09-2017, 04:47 PM)BadDad Wrote:
(05-09-2017, 04:16 PM)Hardtop01 Wrote: I raise this issue again.  The market drives resellers, resellers do not drive resellers.  You want to put the resellers "out of business" produce more.  Not too sure why this concept is still not flying as it pretains to Wolfman Razors.  I draw your attention to to three real examples;

IB baby smooth.  Retailing on EBay for $100+ before production ramped up again, can now be had for $40 shipped.

Paladin brushes.  Retail on EBay for $200+ For 26mm before production ramped up, can now be had for $150 shipped.

IB stainless steel slants, a modest $200 before production, now can easily be had from IB, retail free shipping.

Now a beat up ol Weber sells for $175 + and no one bats an eye.   No one goes bezerk about the 2.5 X price gouging (they sold for a modest $75).

I think maybe a reset on blaming resellers and a little more thought to the possibility that lower production may benefit a lot more people than we think.  I speak in general rather than specifically.

Lastly and most important, I purchased my Wolfman razors before the prices went up.  I can recall the reason for the price hike (actually printed on the website at the time) was so the owner could turn his attention to other custom projects, thus higher prices would (in his mind) curtail purchases..it did the opposite.  I'm not judging, just restating what was on the website of the day.  I think we need to be a bit more conscious about all the factors that brought the razors to this point.
Perfectly stated, and with much more decorum than I could muster.

Increase the price or increase the production. The only 2 real ways in which a manufacturer can prevent resellers. If the manufacturer does not ramp up production or pricing, the market for resale markups will always exist.

It's really that simple. Stop blaming the guy taking advantage of a wide open market, and start placing it where it lies...with the manufacturers. I'm not saying the manufacturers are wrong for keeping low productivity and high demand, I'm simply saying they are aware of resellers, they are aware of how the market operates, and they are intentionally keeping things as they are for their own benefit.

And they are appeasing the masses by saying, "Well, I don't sell to that guy anymore", which is fundamentally flawed at the most basic level of logic. People just don't want to see it for what it really is...

Can you explain what you mean?
~~~~
Primo
Shaving since 1971; enjoying my shaves since 2014
A che bel vivere, che bel piacere, per un barbiere di qualità! Happy2
#36

That Bald Guy with the Big Beard
Bishop, CA
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2017, 05:01 PM by BadDad.)
Quote:
(05-09-2017, 04:56 PM)primotenore Wrote: ...And they are appeasing the masses by saying, "Well, I don't sell to that guy anymore", which is fundamentally flawed at the most basic level of logic. People just don't want to see it for what it really is...

Can you explain what you mean?

Sure:

There is no way in Hades that a single person can prevent any other single person from acquiring a razor if that individual really wants a razor. Sistgers, brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, neighbors, wives, and 15 different email addresses all work to prevent that sort of "prevention" from being successful. It cannot work. There is no logical way to make this concept work in reality.

This is proven by the simple fact that every single time there is a new WR release, there are new Wolfman Razors being resold, unused, at exorbitant prices. If this concept of "not selling to them" actually worked, it would not be such a consistent issue with every release.

That's just logic.

Which means people are believing what they want to believe, instead of using logic and a modicum of economic understanding to see the situation for what it really is...Nothing is being done to stop resellers. Nothing of actual value that stands a chance of really working, at least.

It's a Band-Aid on a bullet hole. It makes "the masses" feel like he is doing his best, without actually doing anything. Like sending hopes and prayers to a disaster area. It feels good, but food and water works better...

primotenore likes this post
-Chris~Head Shaver~
#37
(05-09-2017, 04:30 AM)CCity Wrote: I'm amazed at the amount of attention being paid on this thread to a guy doing what he wants to do, how he wants to do it. I haven't read the posts today, and don't plan to. I'm checking out, but I certainly hope that I never read this many posts from complete strangers about how I should do my job. I wish you all the best.


Wolfman razors brings it out of you since they are fantastic razors!


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#38
(05-09-2017, 12:00 AM)BadDad Wrote: "Scalping" is specifically a reference to selling event tickets.  Reselling material goods you previously purchased is called retail.  High markups is called smart retail.


While 'scalping' was originally a reference to event-tickets, that does NOT mean it cannot be applied here - people are intentionally buying a Wolfman simply to turn-around and re-sell it. That is the very definition of Scalping, not "Retail". Retail literally is "the sale of goods to the public in relatively small quantities for use or consumption rather than for resale."

(05-09-2017, 12:18 AM)BadDad Wrote: 2-Raise his prices. If he charged $400, the resellers would have no room for further markup.

Come on man - you literally pointed out that Economics doesn't work this way elsewhere so why is it that if a sorta-rare item costs $400, it shouldn't go for $550? If the market supports it (and quite likely it will ) then the issue still remains. Shawn of ChatillonLux once commented on how low his profit margin was on a LE set and watching it resell for a multiple of his price was weird for him.

Let's also consider Price Elasticity - those who genuinely want a Wolfman will balk at paying $400 and he won't have the demand that he has now. Price-setting is all about balancing what the market will bear versus what's the highest he can charge without losing too many customers. No businessman wants to price themselves out of the market nor is he creating a product for the Rich-only.


(05-09-2017, 12:18 AM)BadDad Wrote: Purposely? You mean by not hiring skilled machinist to assist in the production? Or not hiring skilled polishers to assist in final finish?  I understand wanting total control over every aspect of the process, but please don't try to tell me that there is not another capable machinist available for hire, or even a lowly polisher that could be quickly and properly trained...

I don't get this reasoning either - if we don't expect Artisanal vendors to produce massive quantities of highly-desired soaps, are ok with Limited-Edition, are ok with Artisanal soaps never releasing their formula to somebody else because it's their product of love, then why are we not ok accepting a vendor who has a clear passion for his work not taking on an assistant? After all, it's the vendor's right to produce his product exactly how he wants to.

The problem isn't about James' inability to hire more or turn a hand-made product into a mass-production (thereby taking the joy out of it) - it's that there will always be people who game the system - both scalpers and the people with deep pockets who don't mind the premium. Asking James to both hand-produce and then keep an eye on scalpers is near impossible - nothing he does cannot be beaten by somebody motivated enough.

mpontiff likes this post
#39
(05-09-2017, 05:53 PM)rp_Neo2000 Wrote:
(05-09-2017, 12:00 AM)BadDad Wrote: "Scalping" is specifically a reference to selling event tickets.  Reselling material goods you previously purchased is called retail.  High markups is called smart retail.


While 'scalping' was originally a reference to event-tickets, that does NOT mean it cannot be applied here - people are intentionally buying a Wolfman simply to turn-around and re-sell it. That is the very definition of Scalping, not "Retail". Retail literally is "the sale of goods to the public in relatively small quantities for use or consumption rather than for resale."

(05-09-2017, 12:18 AM)BadDad Wrote: 2-Raise his prices. If he charged $400, the resellers would have no room for further markup.

Come on man - you literally pointed out that Economics doesn't work this way elsewhere so why is it that if a sorta-rare item costs $400, it shouldn't go for $550? If the market supports it (and quite likely it will ) then the issue still remains. Shawn of ChatillonLux once commented on how low his profit margin was on a LE set and watching it resell for a multiple of his price was weird for him.

Let's also consider Price Elasticity - those who genuinely want a Wolfman will balk at paying $400 and he won't have the demand that he has now. Price-setting is all about balancing what the market will bear versus what's the highest he can charge without losing too many customers. No businessman wants to price themselves out of the market nor is he creating a product for the Rich-only.


(05-09-2017, 12:18 AM)BadDad Wrote: Purposely? You mean by not hiring skilled machinist to assist in the production? Or not hiring skilled polishers to assist in final finish?  I understand wanting total control over every aspect of the process, but please don't try to tell me that there is not another capable machinist available for hire, or even a lowly polisher that could be quickly and properly trained...

I don't get this reasoning either - if we don't expect Artisanal vendors to produce massive quantities of highly-desired soaps, are ok with Limited-Edition, are ok with Artisanal soaps never releasing their formula to somebody else because it's their product of love, then why are we not ok accepting a vendor who has a clear passion for his work not taking on an assistant? After all, it's the vendor's right to produce his product exactly how he wants to.

The problem isn't about James' inability to hire more or turn a hand-made product into a mass-production (thereby taking the joy out of it) - it's that there will always be people who game the system - both scalpers and the people with deep pockets who don't mind the premium. Asking James to both hand-produce and then keep an eye on scalpers is near impossible - nothing he does cannot be beaten by somebody motivated enough.


Yeah too bad there wasn't some type of electronic tracking mechanism or technology to eliminate from selling on the secondary market. The Cubs reduced A lot of the scalpers by removing paper tickets.


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BadDad likes this post
#40
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2017, 06:06 PM by KAV.)
This is truly funny in a sad way. James took a utilitarian object and elevated it to art. Everybody behaved like a UCSD freshman. You drove to Tijuana , bought a black velvet painting of a topless senorita and a hangover. You slept in ditching Art Appreciation core class and missed the slideshow of Diego Rivera. This really cute art major in a black beret is talking with the guy from Fresno who knows where you can see some of Rivera's murals. You went down to this local gallery and demanded a DR to impress her. Dealer kind of rolled his eyes.You storm back to the dorm and have a beer with your instant noodles. Your senorita is there for you, just as good as any Mexican with a blank wall and cans of spray paint or girls in berets.

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